The Tinker Gnomes Need a class, come help work out a balance
Some questions for your pondering:
- Should it be a Base class? or a Prestige class?
- Should it be exclusive to the tinker Gnomes? or can anyone take it? do they need to be in high regard with the Tinkers?
- Is there a particular system in existance that captures your ideas of what a Forger should be able to do?
- Does the Forger play like a martial class (fighter) or does it suit to have minor spells as well (bard/paladin)?
- What type Golems? should it be limited to? MM, but not Dungeon/Dragon mag?
- Should the golems gain feats as they gain HD?
- Should they gain Skills?
Come share your ideas of what these revolutionary small folk can do!
Prototype Forger (Subject to approval):
Game Rule Information
Forgers have the following game statistics
Abilities: Intelligence and Wisdom are important for Forgers because it aids in crafting golems. Charisma is important for Forgers to power the UMD skill.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d6.
Class Skills: The Forgers class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Disable Device (Int), Listen (Wis), Knowledge (Architecture And Engineering) (Int), Open Lock (Dex), Profession (Mechanical Engineer) (Int/Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha), and Use Rope (Dex).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) × 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.
Starting Gold:(4d4)×10 gp (Average: 100 gp)
Class Features: All of the following are class features of the Forger.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A Forger is proficient with all simple weapons and light armor
Fooling With Nature: At 1st level, Allows the creation of golems, see below for more information
Someones Gotta Do it: At 1st level, (Coming Soon)
Lifeforge Affinity: At 1st level, (Coming Soon)
Lifeforges Blessing: At 5th level, With enough focus, it becomes obvious that if you modify the formula for your golems, you can allow them to benefit from half the effect from cure and heal spells.
Manipulate Energy: At 10th level, (Coming Soon)
Forced Construction: At 15th level, (Coming Soon)
Reinforcements: At 20th level, 1/week you may spend all of your creation points in a standard action, you may distribute these points in any way you want, any golem you create has modification points equal to your forger levelx2. These golems only last for 1 round per level
| Level | BaB | Fort | Ref | Will | Creation Points(Per Day) | Special Abilities |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 1 | Someones gotta do it, Fooling with nature, Lifeforge Affinity |
| 2 | 1 | 0 | 3 | 0 | 2 | |
| 3 | 2 | 1 | 3 | 1 | 4 | |
| 4 | 3 | 1 | 4 | 1 | 6 | |
| 5 | 3 | 1 | 4 | 1 | 8 | Lifeforges Blessing |
| 6 | 4 | 2 | 5 | 2 | 10 | |
| 7 | 5 | 2 | 5 | 2 | 12 | |
| 8 | 6 | 2 | 6 | 2 | 14 | |
| 9 | 6 | 3 | 6 | 3 | 16 | |
| 10 | 7 | 3 | 7 | 3 | 18 | Manipulate energy |
| 11 | 8 | 3 | 7 | 3 | 20 | |
| 12 | 9 | 4 | 8 | 4 | 22 | |
| 13 | 9 | 4 | 8 | 4 | 24 | |
| 14 | 10 | 4 | 9 | 4 | 26 | |
| 15 | 11 | 5 | 9 | 5 | 28 | Forced construction |
| 16 | 12 | 5 | 10 | 5 | 30 | |
| 17 | 12 | 5 | 10 | 5 | 32 | |
| 18 | 13 | 6 | 11 | 6 | 34 | |
| 19 | 14 | 6 | 11 | 6 | 36 | |
| 20 | 15 | 6 | 12 | 6 | 38 | Reinforcements |
Creating Golems:
To create a Golem, you must first obtain 100 pounds in raw material per golem HD as appropriate to the type of golem you want. It takes 1 Full round action to create a golem. When you make a golem, you must spend any or all of the modification points, any left over after creation are lost to that golem for the day. A golem lasts for 24 hours. You may salvage parts from a golem by rolling… (Coming soon)
| Material | Cost |
|---|---|
| Wood | 1 |
| Bronze | 2 |
| Silver | 3 |
| Clay | 5 |
| Stone | 8 |
| Iron | 13 |
| Adamatine | 21 |
| Mithril | 34 |
| Golem Template | |
|---|---|
| HD: | 1d10 |
| Speed: | 20ft. |
| BaB: | 0 |
| AC: | 5 Natural |
| DR: | 2 DR (adjusts to construction material) |
| Attacks: | 1 Slam (1d6 damage) |
| Saves: | |
| Fort: | 0 |
| Ref: | 0 |
| Will: | 0 |
| Stats: | |
| Str: | 14 |
| Dex: | 20 |
| Con: | - |
| Int: | - |
| Wis: | 11 |
| Cha: | 1 |
| Skills: | (2+int)x4 at 1HD, (2+int) at every other |
| Special Qualities: | |
| Lowlight/Dark 60ft. | |
| Immunities: | |
| Mind effects | |
| Poison | |
| Sleep | |
| Paralysis | |
| Stun | |
| Disease | |
| Death Effects | |
| Necromancy Effects | |
| Criticals | |
| Nonlethal Damage | |
| Ability Damage | |
| Ability Drain | |
| Fatigue | |
| Exhaustion | |
| Energy Drain | |
| Any effect the requires fort save | |
| Massive damage | |
| Proficiency: | Natural weapons |
| Special: | Cant be raised, Cant be healed normally, A golem cannot wear standard Armor or Shields |
Size increases by HD increase Stats by:
+2 Str -2 Dex, +1 Natural Armor (stacks with everything from the Forger class)
| Wood: | +2 Str -2 Dex, +3 Natural Armor, 3 DR/Slashing, Fire Vulnerability |
| Bronze: | +2 Str -2 Dex, +5 Natural Armor, 5 DR/adamantine |
| Silver: | +2 Str +4 Dex, +5 Natural Armor, 5 DR/adamanite |
| Clay: | +4 Str, -4 Dex, +10 Natural Armor, DR 10/adamantine, Spell immunity, Cursed Wound |
| Stone: | +4 Str, +13 Natural Armor, DR 10/adamantine, -10 ft. Base speed |
| Iron: | +6 Str -4 Dex, +17 Natural Armor, DR 15/adamantine, Spell immunity |
| Adamantine: | +6 Str -6 Dex, +50 HP, +17 Natural, DR 20/- |
| Mithril: | +2 Str +6 Dex, +17 Natural Armor, DR 15/adamantine, Magic Absorb* |
*Magic Absorb allows you to absorb your HD in spell levels per day, you can then turn this energy into any bard spell, standard durations apply, treat your CL equal to your HD.
Modifying you golem
Modifications allow a forger to further increase the power and flexibility of a created golem. Each modification must be purchased at the time of creation. You can have any enhancement allowed by your forger level (see below) up to your golems current limit (see below).
Modification limit per golem is: Forger Levelx2
Modifications
1 Point
Bite:
Gain a bite attack. Deals damage equal to a size appropriate shortsword (min small sized). you require the appropriate number of appendages to take this
Claws:
Gain one set of claws. Deals damage equal to a size appropriate Dagger (min small sized). you require the appropriate number of appendages to take this
Hit Die:
You can increase your golems hit die. multiple applications stack. you receive a size increase at HD: 4, 7, 10, 13, 16, 19.
Improved Damage:
Raises a single type of natural attack by one step. multiple applications dont stack
Improved Natural Armor:
Increases your golems natural armor by 2. multiple applications dont stack
Magic Attack:
Your golems natural attacks are considered magic for the purpose of overcoming DR
Reach:
Your golems reach is increased by 5 ft. this can be taken multiple times, each escalating the cost, 2, 3, 5, 7, 12, 19 etc
Resistance:
Gain resistance 5 to a single element, this increases by 5 every 5 levels
Riders Seat:
You may sit on your golem and take no panalties
Skilled:
Increase a skill by its HD
Slam:
Gain a slam attack, equal to a size appropriate longsword (min small sized). you require the appropriate number of appendages to take this
Tracker:
Your golem gains track as a bonus feat and a competence bonus to its survival skill equal to its HD
Wing Buffet:
Gain 2 wing attacks, equal to a size appropriate dagger (min small sized). you require the appropriate number of appendages to take this
2 Point
Ability Increase:
Increase an ability by 2
Constrict:
On a successful grapple by "grab", deal damage equal to the attack that started the grapple
Energy Attacks:
Your golem gains an extra 1d6 elemental damage chosen by the forger at the time of modification.
Flight:
Your golem gains a set of wings and can fly at a speed depending on your current size, Medium or smaller have good, large has average and huge and higher have poor. Fly speed equal to base land speed
Grab:
Pick a natural attack, you can start a grapple as a free action when you hit with that natural attack
Immunity:
Pick an energy, you are immune to that energy, golem must have 10 HD to pick this
Limbs:
Gain another set of limbs, if used as feet, gain 10 ft speed, if used as arms, can add extra natural attacks or can wield additional weapons, The cost increases each time you use this modification. 4, 6, 10, 16, 26, 42 etc
Rake:
You can make 2 rake attacks while grappling, damage equal to a size appropriate dagger
Rend:
When you make 2 successful claw attacks in the same round. damage equal to a claw attack plus 1-1/2 str
Trample:
Gain trample feat
Tremorsense:
Tremorsense out to a range of 30 ft.
Trip:
When you make a bite attack, you can start a trip as a free
action
Weapon Training: gain simple weapon proficiency, 2 additional points spent gains martial proficiency
Training:
Your golem now gains 1 feat, you must still fulfill all requirements for the feat chosen
3 Point
Blindsense: Gain blindsense out to 30 ft.
Burrow:
Gain a burrow speed equal to half base speed
Swallow Whole:
Gain the ability to swallow enemies one size smaller and lower
4 Point
Fast Healing:
Gain fast healing 1, for each additional 4 points you can increase the fast healing amount by +1
Increased Size:
Increased size by one, stat changes:+8 bonus to Strength, and a +2 bonus to its natural armor. It takes a –2 penalty to its Dexterity in addition to any changes for the size, spend 6 more points to gain 2 size increases, gaining a +16 bonus to Strength and a +5 bonus to its natural armor. It takes a –4 penalty to its Dexterity. these bonus do not stack with itself and overlaps the bonuses for a single increase.
Pounce:
Your golem can make a full attack after a charge attack
Spell resistance:
Gain spell resistance 11+Forger level
Things i may incorporate:
- Exploding golems
- Better customizing of size
- Something possibly akin to the ranger weapon choice, only you would be picking different paths of golem creation (Suicide golems vs guardian golems?)
- Add paper golems? make it the specialty of the suicide golems?
EDIT:
- Placed a limit on amount of arms.
- Added modifications to acquire feats.
- Added possible future ideas as per forum users preferences.
- Changed a few modifications and the way modification points are worked out.
- Stole wes' Mekkineer format to keep consistency
- HUGE format changes!
- Added specific material as to HOW to make a golem and HOW to modify one
- Added base template for golems.
- Begun work on material based modifiers
- Added a way to half benefit from cure and heal spells at level 5
- Changed the minimum sized a golems natural attack would go to, small (had some issues with golems doing 0 damage at first level)
- Major modification on the workings of the golems
The way i saw the Forger was more of a martial class, maybe seated atop his Forged, shooting a x-bow… but thats just me.
I think it using it as a base class will work fine.
I like the idea from the Summoner from Pathfinder.
Limiting to MM golems, then maybe others on a case by case is more than enough what types should be allowed: Wood, Bronze, Iron, Stone, Clay, Silver, Adamantine or Mithril? Should the clay golem be immune to magic (as per the MM entry)
I liked some of wes' ideas last night, hopefully he jumps on and posts them.
Gobar: Mesa be feeling wesa be'en follow'd.
Masodie: Your paranoid.
Within 30 min all hell breaks loose, you see a gungan shaking his head at a human noble.
Brought to you by Gobar Dizz, Gungan Jedi Guardian, Master of tentacles
Sounds fascinating. I had a quick search on the web and found this, http://www.dlnexus.com/fan/rules/11484.aspx. It kind of struck me as really… inelegant. A whole bunch of specialised rules put together in a pretty ad hoc fashion.
When I think about Tinker Gnomes I imagine the core of their skills to be crafting. The downside of this being the time involved to craft items. So, just to throw an idea out there… take the base template for a rogue or bard, strip out the all the extras and have a lvl 0 extraordinary ability to reduce craft time. There are, of course, penalties (often humorous!) for doing this. A reduction of say 25% is fine but any more takes a craft roll (item difficulty multiplied by craft time reduction vs gnome lvl plus some sort of ability score) so a tenth lvl tinkerer would have 100% to craft a level one item in 10% normal time but a first level tinkerer would have say 15% chance to craft a lvl 1 item in 10% of craft time.
Add in bonus craft feats every 3 or so levels and maybe an extraordinary ability at lvl 5 for substituting materials?
It doesnt really address making crazy constructs, which would be the fun part of the build.
Just some thoughts.
Joshua - has delusions of grandeur
Im currently playing around with the whole mechanics of the class, i have a list of modifications (the summoners list from PF with a few chopped off and a few to be added). i have a list of materials as per my update of the original post, Mithril Golems would be VERY interesting (once we gain access to mithril).
As per what wes was saying: Creation points should be given each week. i cant seem to find a nice balance of numbers… i assigned a number to each material type in accordance to what i felt would be weakest to strongest… the highest being 34 points for the smallest mithril golem you can make (make a multiplier to the creation cost for increasing sizes?)
That site you linked for the engineer, His BaB, and saves are exactly as i would have put them! :D coz you need a decent reflex to dodge the explosions of your creations! :P
Creation time is a worry, especially when you have only a VERY small amount of downtime! but i think at the most a 50% decrease in craft time would be more than enough
EDIT: How does going by 3's for creation points feel? at 16, you would have 48 points to spend each week? too much? too little? Do points carry over per week?
NOTE: all this is just an expression of what I think the Forged class should be, and is subject to Wes' inclusion of anything.
Gobar: Mesa be feeling wesa be'en follow'd.
Masodie: Your paranoid.
Within 30 min all hell breaks loose, you see a gungan shaking his head at a human noble.
Brought to you by Gobar Dizz, Gungan Jedi Guardian, Master of tentacles
I love the idea of crafting quicker by cutting corners, really suits the theme of a tinker gnome imo.
Hows this for a class ability:
lvl 1? The works never done: You may use your Profession (Engineer) skill to repair your golems, Your golem is healed:1d20+Profession(Engineer)-HD of your Golem. This ability can be used once per hour.
lvl 1?:Someones gotta do it: You may substitute any check (see MM 136) required with creating a golem with your Profession(Engineer) skill.
lvl 1?:Fooling with nature: You have learnt from the best, you may craft golems as if you possessed the "Craft Golem" feat.
lvl 5?:Manipulate Energy: 1/day, you may enhance a single golem with a single bard spell, the duration is permanent
lvl 10?:Forced construction: Construction costs are decreased by 50%
lvl 20 ability?:Reinforcements: 1/week you may spend all of your creation points and modification points in a standard action, you may distribute these points in any way you want. These golems only last for 1 round per level
Fair? not? too good? not good enough?
Ratio of HD and size (All golems start as Fine with 1 HD):
Each HD is 2 modification points (cant increase above your own HD)
There may be a separate size increasing modification, for those who like COLLOSAL golems… maybe, i do tend to think on the op side a bit >.>
Gobar: Mesa be feeling wesa be'en follow'd.
Masodie: Your paranoid.
Within 30 min all hell breaks loose, you see a gungan shaking his head at a human noble.
Brought to you by Gobar Dizz, Gungan Jedi Guardian, Master of tentacles
Looks interesting but is super specialised. I was just thinking it would be tricky to play and i recall you saying that golems (and constructs in general) can be a pain to move about. Also, where/how are you working the golem creation/enhancement rules?
Did you have any thoughts on the prestige class idea? 10 lvls of gnome tinkerer then a few levels of forger?
Joshua - has delusions of grandeur
Well, i thought id make it a base class as wes has a thing about PrC's.
its only super-specialized if the different material types dont get special abilities… or if you pick the same modifications for every golem…
you can have 1 golem go for tripping, 1 go for grappling, 1 go for multiarm weapon fighting, 1 go for natural attacks, 1 go for heavy spell defense (iron/clay golems), one for personal protection (Huge sized tripper or spiked chain wielder, something similar to the hill giant character :D)
I have a large list of modifications ready to be placed here, just need to edit the list a little, its a LOT of information!
I feel there should be a level 15 special ability… or maybe just spread out the existing ones
It may be tricky, but as long as you do some pre game planning (getting your golem stat block sheets finished before the session)… i wouldnt say this class would be a beginner class. just as i wouldnt suggest wizards for a similar reason… or bards… or a few others.
Gobar: Mesa be feeling wesa be'en follow'd.
Masodie: Your paranoid.
Within 30 min all hell breaks loose, you see a gungan shaking his head at a human noble.
Brought to you by Gobar Dizz, Gungan Jedi Guardian, Master of tentacles
Actually do you want to do the page for golems. Also how do you make golems? You need the craft construct feat and it isnt a normally available one ( I will admit to being very confused by this). Also the mechanics of adding hit dice are pretty murky from the references I have seen (am I looking in the wrong place?). Anyways a decent reference entry on grpg would be handy.
Joshua - has delusions of grandeur
The actual crafting mechanics will have to be worked out… you will need an amount of raw material depending on the type of construct you want to make.
you would need more raw material to upgrade your construct.
Taking a wild guess, to make a Fine sized iron golem would take…
0.15 pounds of pure iron, with an additional 156 gp worth of extra metals… taking 13 days (before time reduction)(time in days equal to base cost of the appropriate material cost)
Calculations from: pure iron divided by 8 until you get to the right size range (8 because thats how much a reduce person reduces wieght by)
and half price until size appropriate for extra materials.
Looking at this, it seems FAR too finicky… there should be an easier way to work it out.
Gobar: Mesa be feeling wesa be'en follow'd.
Masodie: Your paranoid.
Within 30 min all hell breaks loose, you see a gungan shaking his head at a human noble.
Brought to you by Gobar Dizz, Gungan Jedi Guardian, Master of tentacles
I'm sure you and Wes could sort out a good system! Clever guys.
Is it really a golem if its diminutive?
Joshua - has delusions of grandeur
It can grow up really quickly :D
Even a Fine (smallest size) golem can help, create flanking for other people, "aid another" of the bigger golems in tripping/grappling/attacking/defending
you send in 100 fine sized golems and you stand a decent shot at winning, which is possible with the 20th level ability (ok well maybe not 100, but a decent amount)
have a bag of holding and just keep storing fine wood golems until you have a bag full… when the "shit hits the fan"… open the bag ^^
Gobar: Mesa be feeling wesa be'en follow'd.
Masodie: Your paranoid.
Within 30 min all hell breaks loose, you see a gungan shaking his head at a human noble.
Brought to you by Gobar Dizz, Gungan Jedi Guardian, Master of tentacles
Lol, be careful. You are going to end up with enough material to write a whole book! And where are the rules for crazy gnomish airships and steam tanks? If you wanted an airship I suppose you could make a collossal golem with flight and a dozen seats. Maybe you should crack out some of the tables from mechwarrior and make a whole system for slots, upgrades, etc so your forger can make all sorts of constructs. Each construct is a balance of money, time, size and application. Epic undertaking but seriously cool….
Joshua - has delusions of grandeur
I think there are more than enough modifications and material types for the golems atm to allow all sorts of customization… still have to make sure its balanced… but balanced for me, might not be balanced for you (read: party)
atm i see some major issues with just adding arms and giving it a bunch of weapons… might need to place a limit on the arms, maybe spend feats to increase it above 4 or 6…
This is what i would do for MY golems
16HD Wood golem: 38 mod points
2 Immunity to fire
1 Pounce
1 Riders seat
10 size increase by 2
4 Fast healing
20 10 sets of arms
So now he is a Gargantuan 16HD Wood golem who is immune to fire.
i now go buy him 10 Gargantuan Falchions
and he should now be stronger than the party…
if he gets feats, he will do about 2k dmg a round…
And thats exactly too strong! the arms definatly need a limit…
yay for balancing time
Gobar: Mesa be feeling wesa be'en follow'd.
Masodie: Your paranoid.
Within 30 min all hell breaks loose, you see a gungan shaking his head at a human noble.
Brought to you by Gobar Dizz, Gungan Jedi Guardian, Master of tentacles
The other part of balance is cost, I think the monster manual says its 5k per HD above its average for type and another 50k for each size increment. And seriously 20 gargantuan falchions will cost you a pretty penny as well. Maybe a construct that costs a quarter million gold can do 2k damage, You can hire a lot of mercs for that.
But I do see your point about arms, that many is getting a bit ridiculous. its brain cant keep up, it would sink into the ground if its a biped, its arms would hit each other, etc. Maybe we get some plasticine and have to actually make a model of it! If you can't model it, you cant have it.
And you forgot the other version, give it lots and lots of legs and seats. A bus that goes 500mph!!
Joshua - has delusions of grandeur
100 fine sized golems also sound like it suits the flavour of a tinker gnome. LOL
Actually that might be a cool idea, you have to build up every golem. This allows the construction time to be spread out, so it might take 150 days (still think there should be a skill to truncate construction time) to make a large iron golem but you have been working on it constantly for 5 lvls. Maybe also a size/value cap linked to lvl? The upgrades are on a tiered level, becoming available as you lvl up. And the total value (ie complexity) that a gnome can make moves up with each character level. So at lvl 10 you cant put ten arms plus wing splus armour plus fire resistance on your golem but at lvl 20 the value cap is much higher and you can.
Joshua - has delusions of grandeur
To make an iron golem from the MM takes 150 days… how shall we work out craft times?
Gobar: Mesa be feeling wesa be'en follow'd.
Masodie: Your paranoid.
Within 30 min all hell breaks loose, you see a gungan shaking his head at a human noble.
Brought to you by Gobar Dizz, Gungan Jedi Guardian, Master of tentacles
Is it the same with a golem manual?
Joshua - has delusions of grandeur
The manual just aids in the golem creation
Gobar: Mesa be feeling wesa be'en follow'd.
Masodie: Your paranoid.
Within 30 min all hell breaks loose, you see a gungan shaking his head at a human noble.
Brought to you by Gobar Dizz, Gungan Jedi Guardian, Master of tentacles
Sorry for entering the conversation late!
I'm warming to your idea of a rogue-strength combat tinker - in my head it's starting to refocus as a WoW gnome or goblin… which is not my first image.
I've just had a cool-ish idea. Let me work on it and I'll get back to you! I am reading and thinking :D
Stoy, all this talk of a Forger and creation points etc, makes me think of yet another Naruto character lol. Think Deidara http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tjp7YEYZJiQ
I feel like there should be a class special ability to detonate your creation for HDd10 (maybe d12) damage destroying it beyond repair. "Big Red Button"
The feel of this class for me needs to make many creations daily. (weak monsters, but think stronger than a typical summoned monster since they can make fewer but last longer)
*imagines a gnome tinkerer who has 3 barbarians infront of him, sends in his current paper golems as fodder while he starts pulling legs and arms of a iron golem conveniently dismembered requiring a full round action to assemble. Barbarians deal with the detonating golems easily but next round a thick dark statue-like creature is standing before them, they just hesitate a moment and notice what looks like eyesockets begin to glow in a furious red and with impossible speed lurch forward at them*
lol that would be kinda cool, that is how I would think it would be too.
Sure you have your permanent Golem as a guardian, but I'd think you could have some spells or spell like abilities or something just as summon natures ally or monster. This rangers with their animal companions, that can also summon say 1d4 badgers.
Before watching the youtube i thought you meant one of the puppet-masters… but exploding constructs may be available… lemmie think about it…
No major update til probably at least Tuesday…
Gobar: Mesa be feeling wesa be'en follow'd.
Masodie: Your paranoid.
Within 30 min all hell breaks loose, you see a gungan shaking his head at a human noble.
Brought to you by Gobar Dizz, Gungan Jedi Guardian, Master of tentacles
I really, really don't want to hijack the cool stuff here, but try this as an alternative: Mekkineer.
The key features are: no magic, no construction points, no Mod points.
Limits are based on mek's required level, available upgrade slots, and lovely lovely gold.
Stuff changed, Read the Edit list for more details… lemmie know what you all think.
Fluff still to be added
Gobar: Mesa be feeling wesa be'en follow'd.
Masodie: Your paranoid.
Within 30 min all hell breaks loose, you see a gungan shaking his head at a human noble.
Brought to you by Gobar Dizz, Gungan Jedi Guardian, Master of tentacles
Pounce should be at least 2 points not 1, we all know how strong it is. Also golems can't be healed by normal spells nor do they recover hit points from rest. You can repair them via craft construct but last I checked this took time equal to 1 day per 20 hit points and 50gp per point of damage repaired, this essentially means at lower levels unless you have an arcane caster that really likes you, you construct is going to need to be rebuilt often. I would suggest giving them as spell like abilities instead the repair (light etc) damage line of spells from spell compendium. Either that or just annoy the Wizard / sorcerer in your party to use those spells for you, or carry a wand with UMD skill to keep your construct alive.
Actually, healing is done in either of 2 ways;
1. "The works never done" Special ability once per hour.
2. Attaching the "Fast healing" modification (this would work on a construct, even if it would not otherwise).
Your probably correct about pounce though.
Gobar: Mesa be feeling wesa be'en follow'd.
Masodie: Your paranoid.
Within 30 min all hell breaks loose, you see a gungan shaking his head at a human noble.
Brought to you by Gobar Dizz, Gungan Jedi Guardian, Master of tentacles
The issue I am trying to get at is focused at low levels, were you don't have the works never done and you can't afford the fast healing modification.
Bah… low level… who does that anyway >.>
what if the level 5 and 10 ability get switched?
Technically you could get fast healing by level 3, or a 3 HD golem, if thats what you wanted. which is then a choice, do you want defensive or offensive golems?
Note to self: build up a basic stat block for golems, along with what each material applies to the stat block.
Gobar: Mesa be feeling wesa be'en follow'd.
Masodie: Your paranoid.
Within 30 min all hell breaks loose, you see a gungan shaking his head at a human noble.
Brought to you by Gobar Dizz, Gungan Jedi Guardian, Master of tentacles
Its your class just saying at low levels it essentially sucks as your golem has no survivability and can't be healed easily. It can work you just need a Wizard to help you, very much like other classes need a cleric / druid etc. However most wizards won't want to sacrifice spell slots for your construct :)
The best way to test the class is to pit it against a typical encounters at each level, find the glaring weaknesses, in this builds case I would say the fact its only designed for high level play and not lower levels.
Need some cage fights between forgers and mekineers
Joshua - has delusions of grandeur
well as a construct it WILL have DR based on the material its made of. so say you have a 1 HD Wood Golem it would have 3 DR/Slashing or something similar… at low levels, DR can actually make a difference. Also, until later levels, the golem is "Fine", gaining a HUGE increase to AC (8 misc AC?)
I think lil golem will be more than fine against a basic MM goblin.
Still working on the mechanics before i get to more intense testing… though i feel this class is far too strong atm.
and wizards arent even remotely useful til later levels ;)
Lol Conu, that would be awesome! though i havent paid too much attention to the Mek, i think the Forger is stronger.
Gobar: Mesa be feeling wesa be'en follow'd.
Masodie: Your paranoid.
Within 30 min all hell breaks loose, you see a gungan shaking his head at a human noble.
Brought to you by Gobar Dizz, Gungan Jedi Guardian, Master of tentacles
You have to be joking, Wizards are so strong at low levels. Sup color spray, blindness / deafness, glitterdust, web etc. Wizards at low levels are just as scary!!! Of course they don't reach their true potential till later.
I am just trying to point out at those low levels if you golem takes a hit its expensive as to repair it. I was thinking give it repair light damage or maybe even repair minor damage x times per day as a spell like ability. Basically nothing to strong but something to stop your only recourse to get your golem back to full hp being to fork out gold.
And yet most times a wiz will get one shot by Mr.Bowfighter w/rapid shot ;)
Gobar: Mesa be feeling wesa be'en follow'd.
Masodie: Your paranoid.
Within 30 min all hell breaks loose, you see a gungan shaking his head at a human noble.
Brought to you by Gobar Dizz, Gungan Jedi Guardian, Master of tentacles
you know artificier is very similar to this? you could always rip their repair concept (whatever it is been ages since I picked up my eberron book)
I shall look into the Artificer. Thanks
Gobar: Mesa be feeling wesa be'en follow'd.
Masodie: Your paranoid.
Within 30 min all hell breaks loose, you see a gungan shaking his head at a human noble.
Brought to you by Gobar Dizz, Gungan Jedi Guardian, Master of tentacles