I dont recall the actual reason for not allowing PrC's, do we have one?
Gobar: Mesa be feeling wesa be'en follow'd.
Masodie: Your paranoid.
Within 30 min all hell breaks loose, you see a gungan shaking his head at a human noble.
Brought to you by Gobar Dizz, Gungan Jedi Guardian, Master of tentacles
First and foremost, several (read most) PrCs are… disappointing. You have already expressed… um… displeasure at quite a few of the PrC choices out there. I/we need to decide which ones are worth being PrCs, which might be accomplished through a different mechanic (such as base class options or extra feats), and which are 100% pure crap.
Secondly, my take on Prestige Classes are that most of them are "secret societies"… you don't go to them, they invite you. Some of the baggage that goes with that is that I have to develop places and people to match the PrCs. For example, Dwarven Defender should only be available from a Dwarven city - like an Ironforge size city. There's probably three cities of that size in Europa, but you (and I) haven't found them yet (although some people are warm… warmer… hot…). Similarly, Arcane Archer would have to be granted by high-ranking Elves… when we find them.
For something like Archmage or whatever, there has to be "Towers Of High Wizardry" for prospective members to study at. Although there might be a number of wizardly schools throughout the lands, a "Tower Of High Wizardry" must be something fairly rare… maybe one in Brython (or one in Celt lands and one in Saxon lands), one or two in Italia, one or two in Greece, and one in Egypt? Maybe one only in Europa for each School of Magic? Interestingly, I pulled up the list of medieval Universities earlier this week, with a bit of that world-fleshing-out firmly in mind.
Third, there should be lots of roleplaying overhead that goes along with a PrC. Gaining the first level in a PrC should take a month of game time, at the appropriate training facility… not half an afternoon with some grizzled expert. Indeed, for many PrCs, there should be tasks/quests to make oneself eligible to join. After you have joined, there should be Codes of Conduct, compulsory meetings, reporting to superiors, membership fees, members "business" (more tasks/quests), and more.
To get in the mood, think about the Knights Templar, the Freemasons, the Pythagoreans and Neopythagoreans, the Rosicrucians, the Thule Society, the Thugee cult, initiates of the Eleusinian Mysteries, the Roman Catholic Church and many more real world examples. The key features of all of these organisations are that: (1) they are exclusive; (2) they claim to own special secrets; (3) they show a strong inclination to favor their own [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_society]]. And after all, isn't that what a Prestige Class is? Exclusive membership, special secret knowledge, collegiate favouratism?
In short:
PrCs are meant to be exclusive and special - I wanted to make sure they were so.
I feel the whole society deal works on many MANY of the PrC's that are out there, but i think there are a few who COULD go without societies:
Animal Lord
Arcane Hierophant
Arcane Trickster
Bear Warrior
Beast Master
Deep wood sniper
Dragon disciple
Duelist
Frenzied Beserker
Halfling outrider
Highland Stalker
Master of many forms
Mind spy
Shadow dancer
Vigilante
Warhulk
War weaver (specifically states they belong to no organizations, but others want them to join theirs)
Warshaper
Some of these i may be mistaken, but for the most part, could get away with not having a society, some still have req's, like communing with a spirit or animal and things like that.
At this level i think if we were to do it as: apply, quest, gain PrC, then the PrC should be able to be gained retroactively, maybe by doing another small quest per retroactive level you want.
Do you have a small list of some of the worthless PrC's? most or all seem to have a capacity to do well, given the right support(even the Arcane Archer can be "ok" in certain groups/situations - and i like to challenge myself with supposed bad classes and such).
In making PrC's "special" and "Exclusive" you have barred the way for some really unique characters that could benefit the party to a major degree (War weaver is a HUGE example of that!)
Gobar: Mesa be feeling wesa be'en follow'd.
Masodie: Your paranoid.
Within 30 min all hell breaks loose, you see a gungan shaking his head at a human noble.
Brought to you by Gobar Dizz, Gungan Jedi Guardian, Master of tentacles
Sorry if I came over a bit preachy!
It makes sense to a degree, but its making your job so much harder as well, would you make a fighter who multi-classed into a druid take a special application/quest? what if he was multi-ing into a rogue?
Gobar: Mesa be feeling wesa be'en follow'd.
Masodie: Your paranoid.
Within 30 min all hell breaks loose, you see a gungan shaking his head at a human noble.
Brought to you by Gobar Dizz, Gungan Jedi Guardian, Master of tentacles
Based on the requirements, why cant we be 13 Cleric/ 3 Scientology
Why not! If Tom Cruise can be Actor 10 / Scientologist 4 / Dork 5, we can too :D.
All we have to do is find L. Ron Hubbard somewhere around here…
Ok: new approach.
Give me a list of the "10 most wanted" Prestige Classes, and I'll make them a priority.
P.S. There's three munchkins behind me arguing about how big a turbo boost their turbo engines give their Lego cars.
1. War Weaver (HoB) (great party PrC)
2. Chameleon (RoD) (Very Versatile)
3. Dwarven Defender (DMG)
4. Champion of Corellon Larethian (RotW) (for when or if we get elves, they need all the help they can get)
5. Frenzied Beserker (CW)
6. Kensai (CW) (Makes a good PrC for the paladin)
7. Ashworm dragoon (SS) (one of the coolest Mount PrC's)
8. Weretouched Master (Pre Errata!, the only way to make the shifter race good) if we dont use shifters at all, Recaster (RE)
9. Archmage (DMG)
10. Warshaper (CW) (good for druids who dont like spells, and probably my person favorite. Down the bottom coz otherwise i'd be biased and have it at number 1)
Gobar: Mesa be feeling wesa be'en follow'd.
Masodie: Your paranoid.
Within 30 min all hell breaks loose, you see a gungan shaking his head at a human noble.
Brought to you by Gobar Dizz, Gungan Jedi Guardian, Master of tentacles
Thought you didnt like that PrC?
Gobar: Mesa be feeling wesa be'en follow'd.
Masodie: Your paranoid.
Within 30 min all hell breaks loose, you see a gungan shaking his head at a human noble.
Brought to you by Gobar Dizz, Gungan Jedi Guardian, Master of tentacles
A very hard request to limit myself to 10 prestige class options, my list is much heavier on the caster prestige classes.
1. The Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil (CA) (An amazing defensive arcane caster)
2. War Weaver (HoB)
3. Frenzied Beserker (CW)
4. Warshaper (CW)
5. Mage of the Arcane Order (CA)
6. Lyric Thaumaturge (CM) (A decent bard PrC)
7. Ur-Priest (CD)
8. Dervish (CW) (A very mobile dual-wielding fighter PrC)
9. Champion of Corellon Larethian (RotW) (I agree elves need all the help they can get!)
10. Master Specialist (CM)
Ones I assume are already in:
Dwarven Defender (DMG) (We already had one of these remember!!!!)
Arcane Archer (DMG) (You have basically said the elves can teach this numerous times)
Archmage (DMG) (Sounds like you already have plans for this one)
I figured you would have a more comprehensive caster list then i ;)
Dwarven Defender (DMG) (We already had one of these remember!!!!)
i remember it… i made the character for Snowy.
You didnt include the Chameleon :( you dont like 1st lvl haste's/5th lvl Heal's and a couple others i cant recall :D
Seeker of the song is a decent bard PrC too, if you dont like magic as much and want some cool song abilities (heal=perform check + damage songs that have a DC=10+Perform ranks OR ray songs that arc to multiple people)
Gobar: Mesa be feeling wesa be'en follow'd.
Masodie: Your paranoid.
Within 30 min all hell breaks loose, you see a gungan shaking his head at a human noble.
Brought to you by Gobar Dizz, Gungan Jedi Guardian, Master of tentacles
Yeah I had seeker of the song on there but it got bumped off by others. Haven't looked at the Chameleon.
PS I so want to be an Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil has to be one of the most amazing defensive arcane caster prestige classes there is.
Its worth the look ONLY if the PrC's or classes with lower level spells are in the game
another is Bards Greater Heroism
Rangers barkskin and resist energy i think is lower than druids.
Gobar: Mesa be feeling wesa be'en follow'd.
Masodie: Your paranoid.
Within 30 min all hell breaks loose, you see a gungan shaking his head at a human noble.
Brought to you by Gobar Dizz, Gungan Jedi Guardian, Master of tentacles
Dwarven Defender (DMG) (We already had one of these remember!!!!)
i remember it… i made the character for Snowy.
Really? I don't! Did it actually come out in game play?
Benji had a Daltharblah-blah… a dwarven version of a Knight (but a core class :D ).
lol, funny stuff, it was a good tactic til you ran out of things to sunder ;)
Bricc was a Dwarven Defender, by your consent
Gobar: Mesa be feeling wesa be'en follow'd.
Masodie: Your paranoid.
Within 30 min all hell breaks loose, you see a gungan shaking his head at a human noble.
Brought to you by Gobar Dizz, Gungan Jedi Guardian, Master of tentacles
Almost 3, Nevyn had some sort of re jigged archer PrC inserted into him at some point… strange…
Gobar: Mesa be feeling wesa be'en follow'd.
Masodie: Your paranoid.
Within 30 min all hell breaks loose, you see a gungan shaking his head at a human noble.
Brought to you by Gobar Dizz, Gungan Jedi Guardian, Master of tentacles
Clearly there's a message here: likelihood of PrC goes up exponentially with Presence of SnowyTM.
My Preferences for Prestige classes would be:
Justicar
Cavalier
Knight Protector
Dread Commando
Assassin (I wish, but we don't have any paladins in the group…)
Servant of the Unseen Hand
Streetfighter
Vigilante
Might add some more, but this is sufficient I'd say.
Actually, wizards of the coast have release a non evil assassin, its called the "Avenger"
Link: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070401a
Also, isnt it "Master of the unseen hand"? good PrC, forgot about it though ;)
Gobar: Mesa be feeling wesa be'en follow'd.
Masodie: Your paranoid.
Within 30 min all hell breaks loose, you see a gungan shaking his head at a human noble.
Brought to you by Gobar Dizz, Gungan Jedi Guardian, Master of tentacles
Coz im better! (at physical damage oriented classes atleast, and even though he starts out as a caster, he plays more like a physical dps :P)
Gobar: Mesa be feeling wesa be'en follow'd.
Masodie: Your paranoid.
Within 30 min all hell breaks loose, you see a gungan shaking his head at a human noble.
Brought to you by Gobar Dizz, Gungan Jedi Guardian, Master of tentacles
